All the homeschoolers are upset because an appellate court in California thinks people there who home school should be trained to teach.
Boo hoo.
We would be all upset if public schools let people without any credentials teach there. Why? Because we want what is best for the children. Why should people who teach their kids at home not have to uphold the same standard?
Sure, there are valid reasons for keeping one's kids home and teaching them one's self. However, I do not believe that should excuse families who choose to do so from paying their share of taxes to support the public educational system. Nor does it excuse them from getting proper training in content and methodology in order to teach.
Homeschooling may be a right. But it seems to me that it comes with the responsibility to be as qualified as any other teacher. This serves the common good of society at large as well as the best interests of the children one teaches.
So, what do you think?
27 comments:
harsh much?
I do agree however.
If you homeschool, you should not be exempt from taxes, it isn't the public school's fault you chose not to use it. And I agree that they should be held accountable. I think keeping your child at home doesn't in and of itself count. However, there are some out there who are doing a good job.
I also think that if more people who have issue with the school, would enroll their kids and then get involved, it would help. I think what ever problem people have with the school, would be resolved if they got to know the staff, got involved in the activities, helped out. Same is true for the church. Instead of hiding in your house complaining about whatever bothers you, get out and make it a better place!!! Become involved, help, be a solution. just my thoughts. glad you asked?
I'm always down with lunch with you. I'll let you know the next time I'm coming to town and hopefully we can get together then.
As for the homeschooling thing...it seems like most kids who get this type of education aren't behind as far as academics go, but maybe struggle more in other areas.
Here is something I've been pondering for the past few months, what happens when a family homeschools and then the parents get a divorce?
For most kids, they at least have a system of friends and peers that they can escape to and vent. I know there are social systems set up for homeschoolers but I'm not convinced right now that they really compensate.
wow, great observations Matt. I never thought about that angle. Kids these days are so dependant upon their peer networks...
Just to be clear to anyone else reading, in principle I am not against homeschool or homeschoolers. I just think they should follow the same rules as the rest of us.
Yes, I think they should have to pay taxes as well. No doubt about that one, but I do not think they have to have a teaching degree to teach their OWN children at home.
Speaking as a former Homeschool parent, it is a privilege to be able to teach your kids. That is the beauty of homeschool, to teach and pick out the subjects of your choice instead of having someone else decide for you what your kids should be taught. You have a wide variety of what to buy for your curriculum if you choose to do so.
I think getting a degree (or piece of paper) or teaching certificate does not matter in the long run. YES, our society thinks we have to have a degree to do anything in this world, but that degree does not always guarantee we will be the best at what we become.
Don't get me wrong, if you teach public school, then yes you should be a certified teacher, but to teach your own child I feel it is not mandatory.
How many people earn a degree in something and actually go on to use that specific degree?
Yes, homeschooling is a right and a HUGE responsibility, but so is being a parent. That also plays a big factor for the common good of society if not EVEN MORE of a stronger interest of the children we raise.
I have a lot of respect for those who have the discipline and heart to homeschool. It is no easy job, but one of the most rewarding things you can ever do. I love the fact that I taught my son how to read. And I did not need a 4 year education or teaching certificate to do so.
Okay, I could go on, but I think I will stop for now.
Great post!
~Carolyn
Thanks for your post CW!
This is NOT my goal as a homeschooling parent, but:
It has been proven that homeschooled kids do better than their public schooled counterparts when it comes to testing. (hslda.org)
Last I heard, kids could graduate high school not knowing how to read.
So...
Saying that parents have to be trained does not hold water to me.
----------------------------------
My kids are not "so dependent on their peer networks." Thank God.
hey it only took me seven months but I finally generated a cyber discussion. and people think i'm slow. pushaaaw ;-)
Thanks for commenting y'all.
So, Commander, is your degree just a piece of paper to you? Are you proposing that we allow people to be doctors, lawyers, pilots, CPAs, plumbers, teachers, nurses, etc. without any form of certification or licensure? If so, how will we decide who can do those things? If not, you probably realize that the "piece of paper" is not important by itself. It is important because of all it represents. Same with teaching.
Would you do surgery on one of your kids, just because it is your kid and you have the right to do that? or would you opt for someone with the right "piece of paper"?
ET, said, "It has been proven that homeschooled kids do better than their public schooled counterparts when it comes to testing."
Is that proven across the board or just on a certain test? What populations does it include? How many studies have "proven" that? Are any non-biased organizations agreeing with that "proof"?
Well, I'll concede that "proof" to you for the sake of argument. Based on that point, would your position be that any and all parents should be allowed to homeschool? If you believe that any and all parents should be allowed to homeschool, doesn't it worry you that there could be a whole lot of kids not learning very much? If you don't think that any and all parents should automatically be allowed to homeschool, how would you decide who can and who can't?
Congratulations to both of you on the success you have had homeschooling. Never the less, I still find it hard to believe that all homeschool parents are better able to teach a child the full scope of learning that they will need in this day and age than the team of teachers available at a multi-staff school. But folks should still have the right to try if they want. Someone just needs to make sure they are capable of doing so.
And ET, it is kind of rare that your kids are not dependant on a peer network. Maybe they have yet to need one. Maybe they are just unique. Let's compare notes again on that when they are teens.
On the other hand, it might not be a bad thing for children to have peer networks that they depend on. I didn't growing up; but I sometimes wish now that I had developed better social skills as a teen. Maybe I wouldn't be so goofy now.
For example, the 2,219 students reporting their homeschool status on the SAT in 1999 scored an average of 1083 (verbal 548, math 535), 67 points above the national average of 1016. In 2004 the 7,858 homeschool students taking the ACT scored an average of 22.6, compared to the national average of 20.9.
(quoted from hslda.org)- sounds non-biased, but maybe that shows my naivety.
I would do "surgery" on my kids b/c I am fully capable.
If kids are being ruined by being at home and it can be proven, I'll listen. One on one instruction and extra time to play and be a kid can't be all bad. That's what we have. When I have my kids tested, I'll let you know the results :)
i never claimed that kids were being ruined at home. my thesis is that it is only fair that people should recieve adequate training before becoming a teacher of any sort. Can you honestly say that you do not know anyone that you would be uncomfortable with them trying to give a child a full education?
as far as SAT and ACT test scores go, my hypothesis is that is probably more a function of the SES of homeschooling families more than it is of their instruction.
No, I meant when it comes to teaching our own kids the piece of paper does not really matter. My point of a degree is just a degree, is that not everyone uses their specific degree they earn in that field. Some just get a degree to get a better paying job. I was not referring to the professional jobs as doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc. Honestly, I think anyone can do whatever they wish if they have the right mindset and discipline with or without any piece of paper to prove it. I am not saying they should, but I am just saying that it is Possible. Especially with this day and age of technology! So, why not be able to teach your own kids. Yes, some might not get the full spectrum, but how can you really say the kids in public school get the full spectrum. There are those who are often left behind or bored out of their minds.
The big plus with homeschooling is that you know how your own child learns best and they have your undivided attention and can learn more hands on than being in a classroom of 22 to 1 in public school.
As far as the social aspect, there are tons of options for that. There are co-ops; clubs; sports; church friends; neighborhood friends; cousins; on and on.
Commander,
"I was not referring to the professional jobs as doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc."
*So, you don't think teachers are professionals?
"So, why not be able to teach your own kids."
*I did not say people shouldn't teach their own kids. I said people who teach their own kids should be held to the same standards of accountability as people who teach lots of kids.
"how can you really say the kids in public school get the full spectrum. There are those who are often left behind or bored out of their minds."
*I'm sure there are bad teachers in public and private schools, just like there are bad students. But at least the schools are trying to improve the situation by holding students and teachers to various standards. All, I'm saying is that homeschool teachers should be held to the same standards. Otherwise we'll eventually end up with people homeschooling who should not be homeschooling and their kids will suffer for it.
I think a parent should be able to teach their own children without having to have any kind of degree. That is my bottom line answer.
I'm still looking for the degree on how to be a parent! I don't really want to "homeschool" but it would be nice to be trained in the art of properly raising my children without scarring them for life and requiring counseling when they are adults.
Seriously though, I think it is probably a bit different when you are just teaching your own children, after all, their yours...
Teachers are looking after and educating children from several different families and any time that is the case, their should be more extensive training required, just like there is training for those in childcare but there isn't really training for just becoming a parent (nothing that "certifies" you that is).
Anyway, you have inspired me to think of better topics to help generate the conversation online on my blog. :)
Thanks for that thought, ylife. It is appreciated. Your post was from WAY too early this morning.
You people are nuts!
If you want more regulation from our already over-regulating government, then go for it. Leave homeschoolers out of it.
If someone wants to homeschool, they probably have done some research on what to do and how things should go.
If they think its easy, it won't take long to find out that it's not.
As far as surgery goes, remember that Doctors are just practicing medicine.
One more thing, even public school parents are responsible for their childs education. They are the ones that need to follow up on the gobs of work that teachers send home these days. Should you need to be certified to do that?
Be gentle,
Word
Hey Matt,
I think you made my point for me. But I know you didn't mean to.
I have a better idea than parental certification. Let's you and me decide who gets to procreate and who doesn't. We'll put a stop to all the insanity ;-) {Okay, it was just a joke. Don't everyone flip out. I'm not serious.}
silenceisbliss,
For the most part I too am all for less government. But kids are so important it just seems like we should pull our all the stops to make sure they're given maximum opportunity for success.
As far as the gobs of homework, no parents shouldn't be certified to help with it or check it. However, there is a reason that there is so much homework. Its because there is soooo much to learn in this day and age. So much, that it is very hard for one individual to teach it all. That's one reason I think all teachers should get specialized training.
Hey, you gonna tell us who you are?
etrout,
I have a 3 month old...there isn't really a distinction right now between morning, noon, or night. :)
sloth,
I like your idea...less government...more us (by "us" I don't mean "the people," I mean you and me...after all, I think we're pretty special). Is that what you're saying? :)
o ya
More to learn?
Like what? 20 more years of history than when you were in school?
New math? Fuzzy math?
Examples please.
actually, 27 more years of history than when i was in school.
this is the information age. before the internet they said that the amount of human knowledge doubled every 7 years. with the advent of the internet and other forms of global communication i bet it is even faster than that.
there is more literature than 30 years ago, more art, more scientific theories, more access to philosophy, political theories, etc.
for example, when you were in school, did you need to know anything about Islam? now, do you want your children to remain ignorant about Islam?
if you really want examples, just go over to someplace like evangelical outpost. read what is there and see how much of it you learned in school. if that is not enough, click on some of the other blogs on his roll and read them and see how much is new to you.
slothsrcool
I took my child out of the public school system because she was not getting what she needed in any area. I am not blaming anyone for her struggling with the school work. She was in resources classes and still not getting all she needed. There was just not enough time or teachers. She requires one on one and repetitive instructions. There is no time in public schools for that. As far as for kids needing their peers, I feel the same as (etrout). My kids aren't so dependent on thier peers either. My homeschooled child needed to get away from the peers at school. She was treated terribly for many years in the public school system. So, don't say that all kids have to have that support. She never has. Her peers even drove her at one point to say she wished GOD had never made her and that she was dead. Peers sounds like something she really needed to me!! Since she has been homeschooled her self-esteem has improved quite a bit. Removing her from public school was not done so lightly!! Much prayer was put into such a decision. We did fear that she would suffer and I would not teach her what she needed. She has special needs and I know exactly how and what to give her. They did not and could not supply what I do. That junk about divorce or something else happening sounds to me like just another reason for you to not like homeschooling. I don't know about you but we have a great support of family and friends for the whole family. There is no cause for alarm there. We even have some things prepared in case of something happening and I am unable to continue helping. We are very prepared!! I am offended that you even think a homeschooled child would be unable to handle these situations. By the way, (texaskris), I was VERY involved in my child's school and for the problems we encountered that did not matter. Being involved does not make all things right. I also am not saying that I will make ALL the right choices for my child either. I believe I know better what she needs and have GOD'S blessing for homeschooling!! I would not have taken on such a HUGH responsibilty without HIS blessing!! I have no problem paying taxes. I believe I should. People who do not have children pay them. Why should I be any different? I have one child in public school because that is what is best for him. He is doing well. We prayed about taking him out and did not feel led by GOD to do so. Not every child is meant to be homeschooled, nor every parent meant to homeschool. I feel that if GOD has laid it on your heart then that is what you should do!! He is never wrong!! I do not believe I need to be certified to teach my own child. If I were to teach someone elses, I could understand the need. Just like (y-life), I would have been grateful for a "handbook for parenting". Last I checked, no kid comes with that. GOD gave us that awesome responsibility without instructions. Therefore, if I feel that GOD has led me to homeschool my child then that is what I am going to do. IF, HE every tells me to stop, I will. NOT UNTIL!! I AM DOING WHAT IS RIGHT FOR MY CHILD!! BOTTOM LINE!!!
The outrage in California was that a court basically ruled that homeschooling was illegal. Under the laws in place, children could be removed from their homes. The court said the public school system exists for the general welfare of the child. In effect saying that the state knows better than the parents. That's why Hitler outlawed homeschooling. He wanted control over the minds of the youth.
In the last 27 years, not much really has changed. Yes, there is more information to access, and a handful of significant world events. But memorizing the encyclopedia (or wikipedia) is not the goal of schooling. After learning the basics, kids need to know how to learn. Math is still math, etc...
Yes, when I was in school I was ignorant of Islam. I was also ignorant of homosexuality, trangenderism, and the fact that there is nothing wrong with those choices, and that I have no right to criticize such choices. Are government schools really shoving that junk down our kids' throats? I don't know, but I sure as heck want the right to pull my kids out of school if it ever does happen.
Scott, I understand your point. And I feel for you, because you're taking a beating here. Because your argument is based on logic. But those who choose to homeschool also have a lot of emotion behind their viewpoint, since it is such a tough decision to homeschool.
Mark
Shana,
great points. Just to be clear, I never said people should not have the right to homeschool their kids. I'm glad it works for you and Kayla. I just think there should be standards for teachers, all teachers.
Mark,
You make some great points. I only disagree with you on two. First, the world is really pretty different than it was in 1981 from the standpoint of how much information there is and how that information is accessed and shared, and the effect that has on society and culture.
Second, thanks for feeling sorry for me, but I don't feel like I've taken a beating. I've enjoyed reading the posts. I feel like some people have been thinking a little bit. And while I am happy for the success stories that have been shared, I still feel like no one has given a good reason that homeschoolers should not have training. Everyone bascially has said, "I can homeschool because they are my kids and I know what is best for them." And I believe that is true for the people here.
However, someday there are going to be people who say that, but for whom it is not true. When that happens, who is going to protect those kids?
WOW! Everyone is very heated in their view. We are an opinionated people!
I think that there are cases when homeschooling makes sense. I think that the majority of the homeschooling parents we know are doing a good job. I also know of some who aren't. That little boy that lived by granny in the ghetto, his mom slept all day, and did no telling what at night, he was "home-schooled", simply bc she couldn't get him to school. He NEEDS protection. I know he isn't the only one either. As with any thing, you simply can't make generalizations. You, my dear sweet sloth, are black and white. I and many others operate in shades of gray. There are certain things that are right/wrong, however, most things aren't that simple. Maybe that is what has changed since we were in school.
I know that Shana is right, she is a great hs parent, and is doing a far better job than the public school could do, and she was and is very involved in the schools her kids attend(ed). She is an exception to the rule. Her case is unique. And honestly I didn't even think of her case when thinking about homeschooling. ET is amazing, organized, prepared, her kids are very fortunate.
But like you said, not all kids have such parents, not all parents are Matts, Shanas, ETs, CWs, and laws are a lot like sloths. black and white.
I know your heart dear sweet sloth of mine, but next time you want to stir it up, don't pick on my friends! ;) I know you would never mean to hurt or demean any of the people here. But when it comes to your child, you have to know the passion that comes with it. You can throw rocks at me, but leave my boys out of it, I never ever get as ugly as if I feel my child is harmed. So to imply that these kind folks are harming theirs... even though that isn't what you meant, that could easily have been what was heard.
I suggest you find a way to close this out. issue a white flag. and you and matt can plot your strategy at human improvement privately.
just remember, Jonathan thinks you'd make a great prez....but Jeremiah won't let you run bc you weren't born here!
Thanks Pun'kin, but if you'll notice, the blog is on to other things now. You are wise though.
Hey, but you all might like to go to the Richard Land Live website and listen to his show from March 19th.
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